I am not bothered that much by someone having CCCP sticker on their car. Soviet symbols such as the red star or hummer and sickle do not have such a negative reverberation as the Nazi swastika. May be it is because USSR lasted for so long and have done some positive things as well. I am more concerned by people, who are tying to rehabilitate Stalin by denying repressions, who seriously believe and advocate conspiracy theories about “the West” trying to destroy Russia and enslave its people, and those who preach and practice ethnic hatred. I also dislike those who live out the culture of corruption that emerged in Russia in the early nineties. Sasha

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Sasha

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Too many people debate as if the point is to show who is smarter, rather than which conclusion is correct.

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Originally posted by IntensityInsanity: oh, and regarding 'little soviet' girl - kids are kids. kids make fun of other kids. has nothing to do with russian or america or anything else. kids will pick on you using whatever they can find. 'little soviet' was just the easiest. guess you had a hard time dealing with it... hehe, that's why it's good to be a boy. a good punch in the nose always sets things straight :)

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I was a college student then, which classifies me as a "young adult," and people who called me that were several years older than I, so this excludes the "kid excuse." As far as punching in the nose, I usually strike bellow the belt ;)

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"Some say the Muses are nine: how careless! Look, there's Sappho too, from Lesbos, the tenth." Plato

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Originally posted by mkgilstrap: Comi sounds a bit condescending.

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To me, it sounds like whoever is using this word has no idea what it means. Communism is not a bad idea, it's a utopian idea.

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"Some say the Muses are nine: how careless! Look, there's Sappho too, from Lesbos, the tenth." Plato

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Originally posted by 412: When my grandparents were flying the red flag, going into attack or working in the fields or factories, they were doing this for a great idea, not for a group of bastards that usurped the power and perverted the idea. My country achieved great feats while being a union, I am proud of that, and I am sorry for everything that went wrong.

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Agreed.

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Originally posted by 412: My loyalty? I'll be honest, I don't think I have one. I don't think I ever will.

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I think that one can only be loyal to him/herself, and that's what counts in the end. I prefer to surround myself with people who define themselves not as "Russian," "American," "Japanese," etc. but as "human" first (in the best sence of this word).

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"Some say the Muses are nine: how careless! Look, there's Sappho too, from Lesbos, the tenth." Plato

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Originally posted by gtSasha: I also dislike those who live out the culture of corruption that emerged in Russia in the early nineties.

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I agree with what you said, Sasha. As far as corruption goes, sometimes I wonder if Russia is a historically corrupted country. But then again, some say that America is more corrupted than Russia, that Russia doesn't even come close. So perhaps, corruption is a result of our human nature? Has anyone any ideas/thoughts pertaining to this?

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"Some say the Muses are nine: how careless! Look, there's Sappho too, from Lesbos, the tenth." Plato

All the people I know that use any USSR/CCCP/hammer/sickle paraphernalia, do so more for humorous reasons than anything else. I would never have a bumper sticker like that personally, but I wouldn't see anything but tackiness in it, when others do it. The point of America is for them to not give a fuck what any of you think It doesn'lt mean they are communist, it doesn't even say anything about their loyalties, or whether they see communism as utopia, pretty cool idea, or an office insult. If all you know about them is the bumper sticker, focus on psychoanalyzing yourselves instead. Why you think that sticker should elicit so many emotions in you! P.S. In my last apartment I had a red banner with pioneer's oath all students read in 3rd grade - to uphold the interests of the communist agenda Go ahead, analyze me Question my views, discuss in detail your valuable views about what communism is and isn't... ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

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Originally posted by 412: This in my mind goes like this: I completely understand people exhibiting Confederate flag in this country, for the Civil war was not about slavery, not in the first couple of years anyway. And people are being proud of their heritage and showing it, they are not trying to bring slavery back, right? When my grandparents were flying the red flag, going into attack or working in the fields or factories, they were doing this for a great idea, not for a group of bastards that usurped the power and perverted the idea. My country achieved great feats while being a union, I am proud of that, and I am sorry for everything that went wrong.

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I agree with this sentiment completely. And very well said here 412. Just because I am proud of my south and fight to preserve Confederate symbols doesn't mean I endorse the return of slavery or think it was a good idea. People just don't get it sometimes. We can be proud of the good and be sorry for the bad at the same time. Always judge others by the same standards as you would want them to judge you

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Make each day count to improve yourself and those around you

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Originally posted by Sappho: [quote]Originally posted by gtSasha: So perhaps, corruption is a result of our human nature? Has anyone any ideas/thoughts pertaining to this?

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Perhaps so, just look at history. Corruption has taken over ...what... a thousand times and utopia has taken over what... two, three times? I think people left to their own devices amongst each other will eventually see corruption rise to the surface. Though, there exists some notable examples of where I could be wrong on this statement. The American Indians for one, the primitive cultures of Indonesia to name another, where the society existed for the benefit of all and the common good was held in high esteem. I am sure there are a few others. Always judge others by the same standards as you would want them to judge you

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Make each day count to improve yourself and those around you

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Originally posted by mkgilstrap: Though, there exists some notable examples of where I could be wrong on this statement. The American Indians for one, the primitive cultures of Indonesia to name another, where the society existed for the benefit of all and the common good was held in high esteem. I am sure there are a few others.

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But ... did they decide to form/stay in communities in order to distribute common goods to everyone, or did they do it simply in order to survive? As an old Russian tale goes ... it's easier to break one twig than 7, when they are put together. You see, in my humble opinion, everything trickles down to "selfishness" being the main reason behind our thoughts and actions - no matter what people say or what colors they use to paint over their selfishness: religion, generousity, kindness, goodness, etc. People do good because it gives them pleasure, and pleasure is a direct result of selfishness. So, inherently, we are doomed ... we can't build a communal paradise for everyone on this earth. What I don't get is ... how Marx and Lenin didn't understand that! Or maybe they did, that's why Lenin repeatedly mentioned that without "force" nothing was going to be accomplished.

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"Some say the Muses are nine: how careless! Look, there's Sappho too, from Lesbos, the tenth." Plato

everyone has the right to do everything. it's annoying how people mention that this is america and everyone has the right to do whatever. this is a given. i have a right to take a big shit on the hood of my car and drive around with it. doesn't mean it's in good taste, right? :) confederate flag - bad taste. i don't care about all the bullshit you explain away about heritage. i've had plenty of 'confederate' friends, and i've listened to this argument from 'good' confederate people, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's in extremely bad taste. you know, someone who wears svastika could also say that it doesn't mean they hate jews or believe in superior race - it just means they remember the 'good' times of germans - after all, nazis did do some good things, take germany out of poverty, etc. now, i'm not writing this out of russopobia...there's plenty of positive things about ussr/russia that can be exhibited in different ways. chess memorabilia (ussr is biggest donor in history to this wonderful game, even if behind it where notsogood intentions), great russian writers/poets, sports achievements, great kings (peter the great), the best-tasting food in the world, etc. but CCCR? i've had too many family members who spend years in siberia (my father's side of family were gold/jewelry handlers who got rounded up and sent off just because they wouldn't say who in the town had gold/jewelry). jews were discriminated, and many horrible things were done by this 'regime'. now as far as egor said about people doing it in humor - not my type of humor. it's not humor in good taste. yes, they have the right to do it. and i have the right to say it's in bad taste. now, regarding sappho's posts about americans - yes, americans are often ignorant. to this day i still 'lie' to people about where i'm from - when people ask me where i'm from, i say russia, even though i've never been to russia. saying ussr or ukraine elicits way too many ignorant questions, so i just say 'russia'. but ignorance of americans has nothing to do with distaste of CCCR bumper stickers.

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but CCCR? i've had too many family members who spend years in siberia (my father's side of family were gold/jewelry handlers who got rounded up and sent off just because they wouldn't say who in the town had gold/jewelry). jews were discriminated, and many horrible things were done by this 'regime'.

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Jews prospered in Russian Empire. Pogroms especialy were good for them. Double-headed eagle was so much more kind to national minorities than CCCP. Aren't ya'l ashamed to say you are from Russia?

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Originally posted by ribelk: I may be siding on a wrong side of the fence here, but it too irritates the hell out of me when I see Russians who are American Citizens (or trying to become them) brag about how good they had it in Russia or start flexing their "Russian muscle" of fake supereiority by exhibiting such peculiar behavior tokens as CCCP bumper sticker or plates. And even though I don't feel so strongly against CCCP as negative symbol, I still see a point XM trying to make in comparing it's symbolism to swastica.... Of note I feel irritated the same way, when people with gross deformities of their limbs (congenital or due to amputation) insist on wearing shirts showing off their deformity where it can be avoided by wearing longer pants/sleeves...

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Let's look at this from another angle. Branding. CCCP versus USA. When I lived in SPAIN (in the Cold War days), there were Spanish kids with CCCP patches on their jackets. Back in the good old days, there were 2 superpowers - USSR and USA. Even in worthless countries like Spain, if you hated America, you liked Russia. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I saw Yankee Go Home spray-painted on a lot of walls. This was an ideological war - across the world. More BRANDING: CCCP Won WWII. Swastika lost. Therefore, no Swastika bumper stickers. I'm not pro-communism, or pro-USSR - that 'war' is over. But I still respect people who stand up for their legacy - whether it's a CCCP bumper sticker or a rebel flag. I have always liked the underdog. Flex your right to free speech/freedom of expression (and all other constitutional rights) or you don't deserve to have it. I kinda like that the 'young buck' has the balls to put that on his car. Irritate the establishment. Peaceful Warrior would dig that.

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

412 - you nailed it man. to those who compare CCCP to nazi swastika - your idiosity is beyond repair, go and hang yourself you sorry losers with no brains.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

I also agree w 412, when it comes to my personal opinions. I probably have a little more loyalty to the US, becuase I was younger. Or because I am unequivocally grateful to it. Trying to analyse my loyalties to Russia.. I want Russia to reach its potential, I want people to be happy and optimistic, thankfully I don;t have to share their views, because I am here, but i want those views to work to their advantage. I also dream of a mutually beneficial alliance with the west against China and Islam. So you tell me what the fuck i need on my bumper sticker. I see no reason to judge others by these standards. As many bumper stickers as people have here, CCCP is one of the least emotion-envoking. II, you have strong feelings towards flip-flops too, if i remember correctly. I guess I just find it hard to get this excited about minutia. Even though I partly agree with almost every person in this topic. ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

I dunno, gyus... When you go to other people's houses, and you bring some sort of a treat with you; and you know that someone in that house is allergic to nuts--- do you still grab peanut butter cookies and pecan pies and the "the **** with it!"?.... this whole bumper behavior is not that big of an issue at all in itself, especially given consideration to red symbolica trendiness (and/or tackiness). And , yes, sometimes it may be just done in humor... but it does go beyond just symbols... And , James,...russian young buck----the underdog ?????---where did you come up with that, and more importantly: who told you that the cold war was over?

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